[00:00:00] Welcome to The Financial Call. We are financial advisors on a mission to guide you through the financial planning everyone should have. Whether you're doing it yourself or working with a financial advisor, these episodes will help you break down complicated financial topics to practical, actionable steps. Our mission is to guide motivated people to become financially successful. Welcome to The Financial Call. We're in the investment section. Which is I think going to be our most exciting section for most people that are listening. I mean, most people are looking for investment knowledge and then later they realize they need all the other disciplines, right, of wealth management. But this is usually the one that captures attention first. This is episode six within season three, so we just finished real estate investing. In full disclosure, we're actually recording this slightly out of order, so we will be recording the real estate one next. Today, we'll do it today, but just right after this. And right before that we talked about funds.

[00:01:00] So we went through how funds work in general. So, you're getting to the point now. This is the sixth episode within investing. You are getting to the point where we're going to bring it all together next time. So episode seven, we actually added this episode after the, the original design. Because we realized that we were giving everyone a bunch of different parts to like an engine and then no assembly instructions. So, the building your portfolio is the assembly instructions with all of the various parts. Today is probably the sexiest conversation about investing, but probably, Tyson's shaking his head no. At least that's what I hear from clients. This is the part that gets them the most excited. And they're most interested in it. And hopefully we can demystify a lot of it for people. But you know, you'll hear from us that we actually don't think you need to necessarily have these asset classes. So, we're gonna jump right into this. Tyson Long is with us today. Tyson's been on before. Did you help us with the

[00:02:00] pension analysis one? I can't remember which one it was. Retirement income risks. Yep. Withdrawal risks. That's right. Tyson is one of our advisors. He works with some of the highest net worth clients at Capita, so this is a good fit for, for Tyson to be here because he has more exposure to some of these, I don't know. What do you call these? More advanced investment strategies? These more alternatives. Alternative, yeah, investment options. Tyson's one of the most non-traditional, humble, but knowledgeable advisors I think we have. Isn't it true? Yeah. You never know. He doesn't come across knowing everything, but then you ask him little questions and he does know everything, but he just doesn't broadcast it. Thank you though. Thank you. We're happy to have him on this episode with us. He'll be great. All right. Now the first thing to understand about options, futures, private equity, venture capital, there's so much more within this space. Things like merger arbitrage, and I mean, this is a very wide space of investing. The reality is most people can

[00:03:00] be extremely successful without touching any of it, and that's, that's the most important thing for you to really walk away with here. We're going to tell you how they work, and there are very specific use cases for a lot of this, and there are reasons to use a lot of this, but you need to realize that if you don't want to get into the space, you don't need to feel like you are somehow missing out. No FOMO. Yes, no FOMO here. And in fact, I've met a lot of really, really successful and very, very wealthy people that they have become successful because they haven't really gotten into these in many ways. Absolutely. Yeah. They've done a great job doing the boring investing thing and made money in real estate, owning a lot of real estate properties and just cash flowed really well. Or regularly invested in capital market assets. What I mean by that is, is public, you know, stocks and bonds and things like that. There are a lot of people who are very, very successful without it. I think we dive right in. Is there anything else on that that you would? Nope. The best investors I've seen

[00:04:00] over 10 years plus just do the basics better. Doesn't mean there's not a place for some of this, but like to Zach's point, no reason to have FOMO or feel like if you're not doing this, that you're missing something. I wonder, we don't know our demographic that listens to this podcast, but not everyone might know what almost stands for. And I say this because my dad is one of those people, he had no idea what it meant cuz he's the king of FOMO. But fear of missing out, don't have any fear missing out on these things. Laura, that was really perceptive. I mean, you're the youngest one here. That was very like, I don't know, sympathetic to, to be thinking about that like that. Good job. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I, I'm actually learning a lot of, of slang and acronyms. You have teenagers, so you're probably the most in the know. Oh my gosh. She, and like they're always saying, oh, that's a vibe, no cap. Like so many things that, oh, I don't know what no cap is. That's new. That's like, that means not a lie. Like that's, you're not lying. Oh, okay. My youngest sister's 16 years younger, so that's who I learn it all from.

[00:05:00] Wow. Well, to put it that way, alternative investments are fire. That's how my daughter would say it. Good transition. Super exciting. So back to some of the categories. So, first of all, you're taking on additional risk and the concept is you need to be compensated for that additional risk. We're going to talk about how these alternative investments give additional risk as we go through four categories, but you are, like in calls and puts, the additional risk is derivatives. So, calls and puts are options. So an option is a way to invest where you are buying an investment, where the price of it is determined upon the price of another investment. So, I'll give you an example. If I say I want the right to buy, pick a stock, Tyson. Apple. Okay, Apple stock. I want the right to buy Apple stock. Not a recommendation. In the future. Thank you. In the future, at a certain price, and I buy that right. That is

[00:06:00] call option. And the price of that right, not the price of the stock. The price of the right will fluctuate and it's, it's related to the price of the stock, derived from, exactly. It's derived from, but it's not equal to. In fact, most of the time it's multiples of meaning. It's going to move up and down a whole lot more than the price of Apple. Apple might move up or down $5 and the option prices may move and that that may be, you know, a certain percentage. Let's say it's 5% and the actual price of the option or derivative may go up or down 20% as a result of that 5% move on the stock. And that makes sense because for every dollar the stock price moves, you might be doubling the value of your investment because it's based on many, many more shares than just buying the stock outright. With calls, it always helps me think of it in this way. I think of it as a coupon and the c, the call and the coupon helped me remember this, but you are basically buying a

[00:07:00] coupon to buy something at a certain price. That's always helped me remember in my head. That's cool. So, a call and a put, both of those are options. And the reason that they have additional risk is because they are derivatives. And we've talked about a derivative being a security that moves based on the price of another security. Now private equity and venture capital investments, those are higher risk due to concentration and the lack of liquidity, meaning you're putting all your eggs in a smaller basket or in one basket, and you may not have the option to get your money back out. There may not be liquidity. That's what they mean by liquidity. The ability to sell it back or sell it to someone else. Many of these private investments require that you commit for 5, 10, 15 years. and you have zero control over that. The, the fund manager or the manager of the firm may have the legal right to decline

[00:08:00] any withdrawal requests or buyback requests. So that's, that's a pretty big deal for a lot of people. And it's a big deal that a lot of people don't know what they're walking into. I think a lot of people think these funds will behave like normal funds that they're accustomed to and think that they'll have liquidity capability until later when they need it and they can't get the money out. So that's, that's a tricky part. So Tyson, we talked about the risks. Why would people, we'll talk about pros and cons here, but I'm curious to know, like, generally why do people do any of this stuff? Yeah, I think, you know, additional risk, but also sometimes just different risks. I think sometimes, just from like a, a portfolio manager standpoint, you know, not to get too into the, into the nerdy weeds here, but having different pieces of the portfolio that are going different directions at different times is helpful to the portfolio just from a diversification standpoint because it creates a smoother ride. Right? Right. Because multiple assets moving at different times at different pace. Right, right. I also think, you know, with the private

[00:09:00] equity part of it in particular, those businesses typically are much younger in age, and so there's, there's obviously more risk. They're not as established as say, Apple. But they're trying to find the next Apple before everybody else knows about it, right? So, there's this hope that we're able to get better returns as a premium for the additional risk that I'm taking. I think that's what most people are wanting out of it, but it comes with some pretty big trade-offs, like you mentioned. You know, the, the lack of liquidity is a big one. Also, there's the real risk that you don't get any of the money back if those businesses don't work out, which
can happen in public, you know, like buying just normal stocks off the exchange too. But a much lower rate of risk there, I would say. Yeah, the, the transparency is very, very different. So let's just be clear, full disclosure, a lot of us at Capita do both, and a lot of us do it, but we do it with the understanding of this money might disappear and never come back. And the other one that's big for

[00:10:00] me is in my accounts at TD Ameritrade, at places like that, I can see the actual cash that's in the account, I can see what they are investing in. If you give money to some of these private funds or directly to private companies, you have zero transparency into what they're actually doing with the money. And if you are getting a report back, the report is coming from the manager of the funds. This is where there's a really big possibility that those numbers are not perfectly accurate, or that the care is not the same as you would have on accounting for the assets. The bottom line, you can read between the lines. What I'm saying here is there are a lot of people who think their money is be being managed well and they have no idea that it's not, and they find out way later down the line than they would have hoped to because the manager doesn't want to spook their investors. All great points. Also, a cost can be a, a, a trade off to understand there because these are not like a mutual fund, you can buy through your regular brokerage account and it's got a, a

[00:11:00] reasonable expense ratio. We're usually paying. And the common phrase you'll hear is this two and 20 concept where you're paying a 2% annual management fee for whatever dollars are in that, that private equity fund or investment, which isn't too bad on its own. There's mutual funds that have fees that high, but on top of that, you're usually paying some kind of performance fee, where, you know, the operator or manager of that fund gets to keep 20% of the profits above some certain threshold, which that can get expensive if the fund's not delivering on what it's hoping to. And a lot of times they have higher minimums. So even to be able to invest in there, you have to have a lot of money to put towards that specific thing, whereas a mutual fund, you could invest a hundred dollars. It seems like $250,000 is a common minimum for a lot of these funds. Do you think that's right? Yeah, that's pretty common. And I would say it's also, you know, there, there's SEC regulations where they have to be qualified as a certain type of investor. There's this concept of an accredited investor or a qualified

[00:12:00] client or a qualified purchaser, all have these different income and asset level requirements that can kind of focus the group of potential investors to a smaller group. We'll, we'll actually cover some of those. Okay. So those are the downsides. Let's talk about some of the great things that can be done with some of these assets. Cuz I don't want everyone to think, oh my gosh, there's, that was not useful at all. You just scared me out of it. You sell it. Exactly. You can see how great salespeople we are. Right? Let's talk about calls and puts. For example, I have a client who wants to get out of owning stock, and I'm going to change the name of the stock here because I don't want anything to come back for the client to be able to be known or anything like that. So we're going to use an example of John Deere's stock. Okay, so this client, let's pretend he owns John Deere stock and he wants to sell it. He could go in and place what's called a limit order and he could say, I just wanna sell it at a specific price. And if, if someone else is willing to buy that stock at that price and they

[00:13:00] have a purchase order out there, the trading platform will match. And he'll be able to sell his John Deere stock. Now, there's a better way if you have a large position and he doesn't, he doesn't really care exactly when he sells it. He's not necessarily trying to liquidate right away. Okay? So, John Deere's at 357 right now. Now his ability to sell it to anybody out there is always there. He could just go ahead and sell. Instead, if he's not concerned about getting it filled, meaning selling, right right now, he could go in there and place what's called a call. He could place a call option. He could write or sell a call option is what it's called. It's all the same thing. He would be giving someone else the right to buy that stock in the future at a certain price. So, he says, all right, I'm willing to sell John Deere at 350 even

[00:14:00] anytime over the next three months, six months, and that that stock may get called away from him and he gets to keep a premium. He gets to keep a certain dollar amount for having said, I'm willing to sell it at 350, or he could pick, no, I actually wanna sell it at 360 or 365. He can pick what's called the strike price and receive a premium, meaning the other person, you mentioned the coupon, Laura. Mm-hmm. The other person wants the coupon. So they're paying for the coupon. That's the premium. That's the premium, and he wants to give up the coupon. He's fine. He's, he's actually the one drafting and handing them a coupon in a sense to say, you have the right to buy. Little bit of an I owe you just sitting out there. Right. And if, for example, he gets called away, his stock will disappear and he'll, he delivers that stock to the other person. Yes. The person uses the coupon. They use the coupon, and, and I finally now have pulled up what's called an option chain on John Deere. So for

[00:15:00] example, if he said, I'm willing to do this all the way out to, let's go December 16th of this year, cuz today is October 14th. So if he said, I wanna go out to December 16th of this year, so two months worth, and he said, I'm willing to sell at 350 strike, Tyson, help us out here. We're looking at, puts on the left, right? Nope. Calls on the left. 31 bucks. Puts on the right. Per contract. Per contract, okay. And a contract, a hundred shares. So, he could go ahead and receive that dollar amount per share and he would be able to, he'd be able to receive that income. Now what if the stock drops? It drops to 340 and it hangs out there forever. This option expires worthless, and the buyer of that coupon rips up the coupon and says, shucks, you know, because why would they pay 350 when I can just buy it on the market for 340? So the coupons basically

[00:16:00] useless, but they still pay the premium. December, the coupon just disappears. And December 16th it expires, is the expiration date. Yep. Yeah. So hate expired coupons. Right. So, okay, so the coupon expires and our friend that owns John Deere stock is fine. He's like, I didn't wanna sell it at 340 anyway, I wanted to sell it at 350, and while I waited, I got to pick up this premium. So it's been a really good thing for this client. He tells us I want to sell off a hundred thousand dollars worth of my stock each year, and we write a few options against it. We sell some call options against the stock. If the stock price goes down, we don't have to stress about that. He gets the premium, everybody's happy. Other than his price is down, he needs to wait for it to come back up. If the stock price goes up, they get called away. He wanted to sell them anyway. So there's a good example of a really solid use for a call option. I like that strategy too. I've, I've actually seen that be useful for, you know, say somebody that gets a big chunk of employer stock and it's just a really big

[00:17:00] position. You know, they know it's risky, but it's got a lot of gains on it. They don't want to sell it necessarily cuz they don't want to trigger too much of a capital gain. But they're also just worried about the risk of having as big of a position. And so they're kind of stuck. Right? And there's different ways you can do this, but you know, using that, that covered call strategy Zach mentioned as a way to kind of set an exit price like you mentioned. But also, if you're collecting that premium, that's help. In a way, you can think of that as that's a way to help go towards the tax bill if you do end up having to sell it. So, I'm gonna just take it about two or three steps further and then we'll get off of it. But Tyson used the word covered call. You could do a naked call, which means you do not have the stock or a naked put. Or you can do, sounds risky. It does sound risky, right? Where you don't have the stock sitting there to be able to use it to either buy or sell if you're required to. So that can put you at a lot of risk as well as, let's say you have $10,000 and you decide to buy calls that all expire in

[00:18:00] December. And December expiration rolls around and John Deeres at 340 instead of 350, and they expire worthless. You actually lost 100% of your value over two months just because it was all dependent on that, that coupon being worth something at the end. That's tough. And so there's a lot of risk there if you're doing it. So it's interesting. You can actually use options to de-risk the portfolio. A put is the option to sell your stock. So, if you had a certain amount of John Deere stock, you could buy the right to sell your stock and somebody else sells you a put coupon. So, this is a get out of jail free card, right? Like you, the stock goes way down. You get to wave your coupon up there and be like, I'm out. I wanna, I'm, I'm gonna go ahead and exercise this and be done. And that reduces risk. However, you can increase risk with calls and puts as well. Let's see, entering and exiting positions we talked about that you can use options for that. Futures are related to options because they're

[00:19:00] a contract in the future in which you would deliver or actually take receipt of an asset. Futures are used heavily in, let's call it agriculture farming. Precious metals, pork bellies. Isn't that, that's always so funny that that one, that one stands out. The first one that comes and they talk about it so often. Like, why isn't corn more disgusting? I know. I don't know. But anyway, let's say that you have, you actually have wheat or you have a particular lumber. I mean, we, we had a lot of movement in lumber right now. Right? So let's say that you basically, you're a mill and you have, you're a lumber seller. Oh, okay. A lumber seller. And you have to produce a certain amount of lumber to distribute because you've committed to sell it at a certain price based on today's prices. But you won't be able to take possession of that lumber may be for three or four months just because of the supply chain. You could actually use futures to lock in your price now and say, based on the

[00:20:00] current prices, I promise to buy at this price in three months. Because you also have promised to sell in three months a certain amount of lumber to other people, and you can de-risk the price fluctuation in lumber over those three months by using futures. Well then, who's on the other side of that trade? Somebody else could be in there saying, Well, I actually think lumber prices are gonna go down, or I think they'll go up. I'm gonna go ahead and sell or enter the other side of the contract to sell it or to buy it based on the direction I think. And they have zero intention of ever taking possession of lumber. They're just in there for the trade to be able to try to predict the future price of it. And it's so funny cuz we had, I can't remember, was it a year ago that a bunch of traders had been in trading of oil? Barrels of oil. And they were on the wrong side of the trade, committed to buy it, and couldn't because of the price movement, couldn't get out of the trade and they had to take possession of oil. Like these people who are seeing, not ideal, not ideal at all. You know,

[00:21:00] people, white collar folks sitting in a building that have to figure out how to take like, I don't know the quantity, but it was an insane amount of oil that they had to figure out how to actually possess. And I just think of those huge barrels, you know, that you have to roll around. That's crazy, right? Can you imagine? Like that's not your business. You're in the business of financial management and trading, and all of a sudden now you have to come up with real estate forklifts, everything to try to take possession or pay someone to do it. I'm sure that's what happened, and they probably lost decent money on that. But anyway, that gives you an idea. That's how futures are used. Cotton, steel, other things like that. And that's how it, it can be used to also bet. So, this is another area. Derivatives. Keep in mind that's not an evil word, the word derivative, it just means you could choose to de-risk your asset or your wealth with a derivative. Or you could, well not accidentally, but you could purposefully take on more risk as well. It's just depends on what you're doing. Well I watched The Big Short, so there you go. If I hear the word derivative, that just means bad. That's the worst thing ever. Right?

[00:22:00] Yeah. Isn't that funny? Okay. I love that show by the way. It. So private equity. So Tyson, talk to us a little bit about this because in the past people used to buy what they call small cap stocks and they could, you talked about getting into an investment in a business early, and you used to be able to get in pretty early by doing IPOs, by participating in an initial public offering where a stock goes public. It's maybe worth 50 to a hundred million in assets. The total company is, it starts trading on the exchanges and average people, any of us could go in place an order in our brokerage account, buy some of that stock. And it seems like that opportunity has pretty much gone by the wayside to pick up really small companies like that. Yeah, for sure. There's definitely been this, this phenomenon of, you know, if you look over the last 10, maybe 20 years, gradually over time, like you're starting to see more and more companies try to do the IPO or go public,

[00:23:00] you know, that initial public offering or IPO, later in the life cycle of that business, which is kind of strange just cuz that's typically where, from an investor's standpoint, most portfolios are more heavily weighted towards bigger well-known names. You know, McDonald's, Apple, Amazon, et cetera. But usually there's always a little bit of an allocation to like the small cap portion of a portfolio. Right. Which can really give a, a portfolio, um, some growth, obviously some additional risk as well. But I think that kind of small cap section of the market looks a little different today than it did 10 or 20 years ago because companies are waiting so long to go public. By the time they enter the public market where I can just go buy it in my account, they're already the size of a mid or large cap at that point. Yeah. They come in in the middle or at the top. Right? Right, exactly. In fact, I was just kind of looking for, for different data points, and obviously as I listen to things and read things, I, I take notes of things that are interesting to me, but just within

[00:24:00] the last 20 years, you know, if you look at 2000, the beginning of the year 2000, which, I mean, that was dot.com era, so this might be a little bit of an inflated number. But there were 7,810 publicly listed companies. At the end of 2020, there was 4,800. So that's a pretty amazing, wait, wait, wait, hold on. When was it? Was it.com? End of.com was the 7,000 figure, beginning of 2000. Wow. That's a lot of companies to weed out over that 20 years. Yep, exactly. And just to kind of add onto that, so within just the technology sector, there have been a few studies that have found the average age of a company that's going public. So think about a new company that's just barely gone public. They haven't hit the stock exchange yet. They've been owned by private individuals or entities. These private equity and private investment funds we're talking about, and they're finally saying, Hey, I wanna go public. We're gonna raise a ton of money by letting the public in on the ownership structure of this business. Yep. You got it. So in 1999, on average,

[00:25:00] that company was about four and a half years old. In 2020, that company on average was 12 years old. It's almost, what is that? Three times as old? Yeah. So I mean, that, that's pretty, that's pretty crazy. And I think some of the appetite for, you know, what we talked about earlier, why people are interested in these private equity, um, and venture capital funds are, They're looking at what they can buy in public markets right now, and there's, there's nothing to buy in that really small business space to give them that exposure. Like there used to be, 10, 20 years ago where they don't have the option to make as high of returns because the businesses are more established. I get it, and I understand why it's changed too, because I feel like back in 10 and 20 and 30 years ago, fewer people had a lot of money. It was hard to come up with half a billion dollars to buy a company. The easiest way to get money was to go public and sell shares. But now there's so much money out there. Appetite. Everybody wants for it. Everybody

[00:26:00] wants a piece. Yeah. So they can get enough money before going public, right? I mean, imagine if you had the job to come up with $500 million to buy a business outright, like how would you go out and find enough people that want to pool their money together to come up with 500 million to buy a business? That was a really difficult thing in the past, but now it seems as though that's not that hard anymore. There are so many people out there with, that are wondering what's to do with cash, meaning there are so many high net worth individuals out there now that are looking for these opportunities. You guys talk about appetite, so I just pulled these numbers and as of March, this is from pitchbook.com. Do you, you have some of this as Tyson? Yep. That's what we're looking from. Yep. Maybe this is different. It says as of March 31st, 2022, there were 607 active unicorns in the US. So, an active unicorn, a unicorn is a business that has a value of over $1 billion. And a

[00:27:00] decacorn is over 10 billion. And there are even decacorns out there too. So these are private businesses. They are not on public exchanges, and yet they are already worth 1 billion dollars. I remember when I started in this industry, I remember looking at the market cap, which is just the value of businesses, in the small cap space. And I remember thinking, oh, cool, this one's only worth a hundred million or $200 million. And knowing how small that was, these private businesses are five and 10 times that size, and they have not gone public. And these private equity funds and venture capitalist funds have so much money because they have so many high-net-worth people behind them. And it's lucrative too, right, to run those private equity funds. I mean, they're making pretty good money, so too much money. Yeah. So I mean, there's, there's an incentive there to keep those dollars in those funds longer as opposed to letting them go public. And I think also just from a
company standpoint, sometimes companies don't necessarily love being a public company cuz then I think

[00:28:00] it's good for, for investors because it holds them more accountable. They have quarterly earnings reports they have to do in a lot of like regulatory things, and so I think it's a good thing for, for most investors. But from the company's viewpoint, sometimes they don't wanna be scrutinized. Oh yeah. Every quarter. That would be like having your own tax return audited every year. Who would ask for that? That'd be brutal. I have a friend who works for a company that's going public, and so all of their processes just have to be combed through with a fine tooth. But yeah, it's just a lot more reporting, a lot more work for companies. So you can see why they would delay going public if they can get the money without doing so. So venture capitalism, is when, I have a close friend in the industry. He best describes it as usually private equity investments are, are profitable, they're already making some money. And usually venture capital investments are not profitable. They are losing money. But it is such a, a great idea. It's like just past the idea stage. It's like the day after the idea stage. Yes. And you are, you are at the very beginning hoping that you are

[00:29:00] so far ahead of the other investors that you will benefit insanely well because the idea will turn into something great and then be profitable. The tricky part is you are at the very beginning of the idea stage, and this thing could just be an idea and never actually turn into anything that great, and man, do they do a great job with pitch decks? Those pitch decks. Oh, thanks. They're great at those, aren't they? Yeah. Those PowerPoints look fantastic. Yeah. And you think like, how could I lose in this thing? Totally. And they are. They're convincing. But you have to understand, so venture capitalism, then private equity, there's also something called private credit. This would be where you are lending your money. Anytime you hear the word credit, that's income or debt, and you're lending your money and receiving interest. Anyway, again, this alternative space is so wide. Just in general. We will talk about alternatives in the next episode where we talk about how to build your portfolio. But keep in mind, you could build a fantastic portfolio without any of

[00:30:00] this, or you could choose to use some of it. We are not a fan of putting everything in these things where you have derivatives without any underlying coverage in the stock or investment. Or futures that that could all expire and make everything go away. Private equity where you're locked in for really long periods of time, or venture capitalism where it might just be an idea. But if you have an appetite to get better returns than what you might see in just pure stock market investing and you're, you are willing to take some of the downsides that we've talked about. This is where you can start to enter into private investments and alternative investments. Anything else you guys would add to this? No, I feel like we took a step into the wild, wild West today. A little bit. It's been forever going into more detail. It's true. There's a lot more, but next time we will be going over how to bring it all together. We talked through all the parts of the engine, which, yeah, and that's what people wanna know. You know, how to put it together, how to build your, your portfolio. So, we will touch on that next time. Sounds great. Thank you.

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