Guided Path 8-3 Life Insurance

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Does it feel like you’re constantly being pitched life insurance? There’s a reason for that and we’re going to tell you why. In this episode, Zacc Call and Laura Hadley explore the intricacies of life insurance. Zacc shares his journey with thyroid cancer and underscores the value of life insurance in providing financial security during unforeseen health issues. They discuss the importance of determining the right amount of coverage, differentiating between term and permanent life insurance, and the potential pitfalls of policies with investment components. The conversation also covers the motives behind selling permanent life insurance, the role of financial professionals, and the considerations for children's life insurance and funeral costs. Zacc and Laura discuss, Zacc’s personal story about being diagnosed with thyroid cancer & how it impacted his ability to obtain life insurance, how you can determine the right amount of insurance coverage for your situation, the investment aspects of permanent life insurance, life insurance for children + employer-provided insurance, and more.

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[00:00:00] Welcome to The Financial Call. We are financial advisors on a mission to guide you through the financial planning everyone should have, whether you're doing it yourself or working with a financial advisor. These episodes will help you break down complicated financial topics into practical, actionable steps.

Our mission is to guide motivated people to become financially successful. Welcome to The Financial Call. This is Zacc Call. I'm here with Laura Hadley, and we are going to be talking about. Life insurance, which is usually not the most exciting topic, but it's one of those that it doesn't matter in your life until it absolutely is everything in your life and then you need it and it's almost too late at that point.

It is too late at that point. Yeah, almost. It is. Yeah. Good point. I'll give you a quick explanation on my situation. I've talked about this on the podcast before, so if you're one of those avid listeners from 150 episodes ago, you know this, but most people are new. So I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer in 2010, [00:01:00] and gosh, that's been 14 years.

That is weird. So, and just to give you kind of a quick story on life without going too far, my wife and I were married in 2006. We had our first kid in 2008, and so she was two years old. And then we had twins in October of 2010. Two weeks later, I was diagnosed with cancer and it was the craziest time ever.

And then two years after that, my wife had a brain tumor. So for the first five years of the twins' lives, we had a 2-year-old and then newborn twins. And then for the next five years it was basically a blur. And your sweet wife, she had to relearn how to walk. Yeah, the brain tumor was not cancerous, but it was on the balanced nerve.

Vestibular schwannoma. If you're one of those medical people, which Laura actually has nursing background, so maybe this is interesting to you as well, but it's on the balance nerve. So when they cut the tumor out, they actually have to cut through the balance nerve on that side. It was like she had constant vertigo for a long, long time and [00:02:00] your brain has to retrain to use visual cues instead of your normal equilibrium because vertigo, you always feel like you're on a ship.

Right, exactly. So basically we would take little trips around the kitchen and then back to the bed and we progressed to while you had twins and a baby and a 2-year-old, and the neighborhood was amazing. They came in and they would help get the kids ready for bed while I would help Michelle walk around, and then we'd put Michelle back down and then I'd go back to the kids and it was kind of a crazy time.

But the reason I tell you all this is because, so I've had three surgeries total on the thyroid cancer in 2010, 2014 and 2019. And we constantly are watching little, little nodules, well lymph nodes that end up growing, and then we end up having to either take them out or do something. Now, it's not something that usually kills you, it's something that.

It grows so slow, you die of something else, but it's something you have to maintain. And it constantly shows up on my medical record, which means that I am not the candidate that a life insurance company wants to [00:03:00] take on because even though I'll be fine, and even though it's a really, really low risk, they see that cancer word and they're out.

I basically am trying to build Capita's enterprise value as my life insurance. I have to just build my assets and save as much as possible so that if I passed away, I have to be self-insured. You're self-insured. Yeah, so think about that. I was actually in the process of getting a half a million dollars of term life insurance on my wife.

I had gotten it all set up. I just hadn't signed it. And then my wife got diagnosed with the brain tumor. Oh, so she's also an eligible unchangeable. Yeah. And some insurance companies may take you, they just rate you extremely high and sometimes you have to wait. I mean, usually they say if you are 10 years out from cancer, then I.

You're back and you could probably get insurance, but I'm only five years since my last surgery and we keep seeing little lymph nodes that we have to watch. So, and you were working at this time and you had insurance through your work. Exactly. But you had an interesting scenario where you left that former employer.

Yes. I was [00:04:00] working at a larger financial institution and they had fantastic life insurance available through work. And they said it was available to be portable to your own plan when you leave. I was like, great portability, it's going to work. So when I left, the premiums at the time were like $70 a month, which was really, really low for $1.7 million of life insurance.

And when I left, the premiums popped to $1,200 a month. It was hard to look at that and say, is it really going to be okay for me here to pay 14 to $15,000 a year for this life insurance? I mean, in the beginning there is the risk of if I passed away, then yeah, it would be totally worth it. It'd be a good investment.

But as long as I live for five to 10, 15 years and we just save that money, otherwise we're probably going to be better off. So anyway, that's the story behind it. And I wish that I had more life insurance. So anytime that I can get it, a hundred [00:05:00] thousand, 250,000 without health screening or whatever, I jump all over that and I have accidental life insurance.

So accidental is where if I died of an accident, it pays out, but not health reasons. But today we're going to talk about three main things. How much insurance should you have? What is the difference between term life insurance and permanent life insurance? And then some ideas around like why you're being pitched life insurance so much to help people understand.

'cause they get told they need a bunch or they need certain types from financial professionals. And there's definitely incentives there for the financial professionals. So there's a reason that's happening. Let's go through it in that order. How much do you need difference between term and permanent, and then why you're being pitched so much, and hopefully that will give you enough of a background to be able to know how to at least proceed and have the conversations with the agents to get it done.

Full disclosure, we do have a bias, I would say, but we'll explain why. Yeah. We have [00:06:00] that bias, the reason behind it. Totally. Sometimes I think having a bias means that you have an opinion. We have a strong opinion about this. Yes. Let's just jump right into that. We typically believe that. People just need term life insurance.

And there are some places and situations for permanent life insurance. Absolutely, but a lot of insurance agents basically only sell permanent life insurance. And the reason is that's where you get paid a higher commission. But we think term life insurance is just fine for most people. By the way, our next episode is going to really go into when you add it.

Under what circumstances, and then when you can drop it and how to decide a little bit more about how much you need. But let's do a very basic calculation. Basically, you should take whatever liabilities you want paid off upon your death. Usually that's the mortgage. So if you have a $500,000 mortgage, write that down on a piece of paper.

That is a life insurance face [00:07:00] value is what they call it. The amount you get at death is the face value or death benefit. Write $500,000 down. Then now go on to look at your own income. And realize that if you're making $150,000 a year, you probably don't need $150,000 a year of withdrawals from a portfolio to have the same lifestyle because you have 401k contributions and higher taxes probably than.

If you have $150,000 of income, you probably only need a hundred to 120 of actual withdrawals from the portfolio for the exact same lifestyle. An insurance face value or death benefit is tax free. Good clarifying point. You basically are able to spend less and have the same, or have less, let's call it showable income.

Yeah. And have the same lifestyle. Same lifestyle, yeah. Take that number that you decide. Let's say it's a hundred thousand dollars. Multiply it by 20, that's going to be [00:08:00] the higher end and the easiest way for you to know, okay, this is a good life insurance number. What is that? $2 million. So there's your number $2 million of death benefit to cover the income for your family.

Are you saying the 120,000? Just a thousand. Just, I was looking for easier math, Laura. And so if you have a hundred thousand dollars. Of spendable cash that you need. Multiply by 20, you get to $2 million plus at that same time, you want to just pay off the mortgage, another half a million dollars there, so $2.5 million.

That would be a great. Start for somebody in that situation to basically have their life insurance taken care of. Now, here's the tricky part. They do not inflation adjust the death benefit over time. So if you're making that level of income today, I. You have two options because someday you're going to make more and life will be more expensive and you're going to want to spend more, let's call it three [00:09:00] options.

Either going to add more life insurance later, or hopefully you grow your wealth fast enough that you are self-insuring for the rest. Or the third one is you can overinsure a little bit right now because you're worried that you might come up with some health concern like my story and not be able to add more life insurance later.

That's how you handle if you think like, well, what if I end up making $200,000 a year in five to 10 years, and I actually need $3 million to support $150,000 a year of income? Maybe you just bump it up to $3 million now. Now, if you were to buy that much permanent life insurance, it would be insanely expensive.

Those premiums would be massive. And we'll talk about why term life insurance is going to be a lot less expensive. And what they do is they look at your age, they look at your health history. And they look at how much life insurance you want, and then they'll say, okay, it's going to be this much per month, and that's it.

And it's pretty [00:10:00] straightforward. You are going to pay that premium. There's no investment component associated with term life insurance. You're just going to pay that premium and they're going to take that premium and combine it with all the other people out there making premium payments. And the insurance companies know.

Based on the large sample size and the laws of large numbers is basically what's happening here. They can say. We know that on average, one out of this many people will pass away each year. We need to charge this dollar amount per month to all of our customers, and we'll be able to make that death claim.

They have experts behind the scenes doing that analysis and making those predictions, and they get pretty good at it, and that's how they're able to cover those death claims. I think that number is going to surprise some people. The amount of insurance that we recommend. In meeting with people and talking with people, a lot of times they'll say, yeah, I'm good.

I'm covered. And they'll have a $500,000 policy or $700,000 policy, even though they're [00:11:00] making 150, $200,000 a year. So I think hearing that number is surprising, but if you think through it. If you have 20 more years of income that you're needing to make to support your family and you have a mortgage, the reality is they'll probably need that much unless you want your spouse to go back to work or you have a few different options in there.

But I think in most cases people don't have quite that much. You're probably right. That's true. There's a little bit of sticker shock there. Think about it a little bit. If you are making $200,000 a year and you have a million dollars of life insurance, that feels like a lot of life insurance. But that's only five years worth of money.

Now, obviously your beneficiaries, your family will probably talk with somebody or run the math and realize that they have to adjust their lifestyle dramatically to make it last a lot longer than that. So they probably will spend less than the 200 a year. So a couple other things really quick to throw out there in the, how much do I need conversation?

Most people [00:12:00] end up with some sort of social security survivor benefits as well. Let's say I passed away today. My wife could claim benefits for my children based on my earnings record. So social security would make some monthly payments, and I would assume at this point it would probably be two, $3,000 at least a month for my family.

So your kids would get some benefits and then your wife would get some benefits for taking care of the kids. There are income limits. So if Michelle went out and got a job, she might not qualify for that benefit for herself. Kind of an interesting thing, I was talking to somebody recently in this situation.

Her spouse passed away and she has some kids, but she couldn't qualify for her own benefit because she was working a little bit, so she made too much money. So just some interesting things to think about as the kids age, as they get older, those benefits go away. They have to be under a certain age and survivor of a deceased parent, and then the caretaker of that person can receive payments for them [00:13:00] and help take care of 'em.

So the point is there's money there and it's subject to family maximums. If you have 10 children, you're not going to get 10 times the amount. It's going to be close to a 1.75 to two times the total possible dollar amounts anyway. Just know that there's social security out there. Two to $3,000 a month is kind of like 500 to $600,000 worth of life insurance.

So if you can. Equate that over and say, okay, that will help me with some of those payments. But we already adjusted the spending down a little bit. We said, $150,000 of income, we're going to give 'em a hundred thousand dollars worth of lifestyle. Plus they get a little bit from Social Security, they're probably back up to $125,000.

You get the idea and. They'll be fine. So the differences between term and permanent. So permanent life insurance, there are different words that all fall under the permanent category. Universal life insurance, whole life insurance variable. There's [00:14:00] also universal indexed life insurance, guaranteed universal index life insurance variable.

There's so many different words that are all different flavors of permanent. And the easiest way for me. To understand the difference between term and permanent, there's two things. One, what does term mean? It means that it terminates at some point. It's going to be over at some point, and you're no longer covered.

You're no longer covered, and you're no longer making payments, and you could stop making your payments at any time if you want that policy to just lapse. But as long as you make your payment, the insurance company is under contract to keep that life insurance in place for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, whatever.

The term is of the term policy, so that is term life insurance. It terminates permanent, is just that it's permanent. As long as there's value enough to pay the premiums or you keep paying the premiums, it will go all the way until that person passes away. I. So most term life insurance actually [00:15:00] never pays out because people live beyond the years that of the term, and they stop making payments.

And the insurance has done its job in the sense that it covered them when they needed it, and they decide they no longer need it and they're done. That's why it's cheaper, is because many cases they never have to pay out on it. Permanent. If they know they're going to pay out, they better charge enough to make sure that they can pay out on it.

Now, a lot of permanent life insurance gets unused as well. The cost of it ends up being so high. I can't tell you how many times people bring us a statement and the statement has an investment value of a hundred thousand dollars, and the individual says to us, I have no idea what this is. I don't know why I own it.

I have to pay a ton of money every year for it, and I don't see myself ever using it. What is this thing? It's hard. 'cause sometimes those are good policies. I. And the individual just forgot what it was, but most of the [00:16:00] time it's not something they need. It's not something they want, and they probably, we can change it.

We can get out of it. A lot of times, I'll explain that a term insurance policy, you're just paying for the insurance, whereas a permanent policy, you're kind of combining an investment with insurance, you're putting money in, you have a cash value. But when we separate it out and run the numbers on the cost of the insurance and the investment returns.

It's not a good return. It's not a good investment option. So that's why a lot of times we say, let's just buy really low cost term insurance to cover the insurance cost, and then let's put those extra premium dollars somewhere else and invest them properly. And most of the time you end up making way more money that way.

Some policies are good and they're great, and we'll evaluate people's own policies. We'll look at the cash value, see if it makes sense. If we surrender the policy, take that cash value, reinvest it. How long do we need to wait to make up for that death benefit that we gave up by surrendering the policy?

So there are different things that you can do. If you [00:17:00] have a permanent policy, you know you can take a peak. See if it does make sense to continue paying those premiums. Or a lot of times what you're saying, Zacc, is people don't even know what they have and why they're doing it, so we can evaluate it to see if it is best to keep it, or if you can move your money somewhere else and invest better.

I. Absolutely. That's the second thing. So the first thing to understand is it's permanent. Sorry. Term terminate. Terminate. If somebody out there makes a hybrid of the two, call it permanent, please. Oh, it's hilarious. There's term life insurance and permanent life insurance, and it has to do with it stopping or being permanent.

And then that second aspect of it is what Laura just explained. Investment components are added to permanent, whereas term is, there's no investment component to it. Once it ends, there's nothing that you get. You have no investment in it. Yeah. I was talking to my brother about this and he's like, ah, that's awful.

I'm paying all this money every month into it, and then it just ends and there's nothing. I'm like, well, that's a good thing. That means you never needed to pay out on it. Well, your family never got to be paid out on it. [00:18:00] By the way, the best logic you can use for insurance in general, and this goes across many different aspects of insurance, is use insurance when the cost of insurance is low, but the risk of the event is catastrophic.

If you can pair premiums with the avoidance of a financially catastrophic event, that's a fantastic use of insurance. Think about car insurance if you can keep the premiums low and cover the things within car insurance that are catastrophic. Like you put somebody in the hospital, you destroyed a Lamborghini.

You know, that might something that might like destroy your finances, but covering all the dents and scratches or tiny little things that cost you thousands of dollars every year that you could probably just pay for on your own, that's probably not the best use of insurance. So where the cost of insurance is low to avoid a financially catastrophic event, that's [00:19:00] a fantastic use of insurance.

So going to universal whole and variable. And talking about these really briefly, a whole life insurance policy. Typically, this is one of the most old school permanent life insurance, so I'm starting with the basics of what existed for a long, long time. Whole life insurance gives you typically a fixed interest, so you know what the policy's going to do when you get into it.

It's fixed interest, fixed premium, no fixed interest within it. I see. Sorry, I shouldn't say no. 'cause you're right. It's also a fixed premium, so they call that level premium. So typically there's a level premium going in and a portion of that immediately is going to the insurance, and a portion of that is dropping into a fixed interest bucket.

The growth on that is fixed. That's whole life insurance. Then the idea is, and people talk about this as such a wonderful thing, which it can be a wonderful thing, is you put enough money into the whole life policy [00:20:00] that it's quote, paid up, end quote, like that's the terminology that paid up. You put enough money into it that the interest on this investment value is larger.

Just the interest is larger than the insurance costs, and now the investment spins out the interest. The investment cost gets deducted from it, and it just keeps working over and over and over again. So once it gets paid up, that's what they're talking about. And now you don't have to make any more premium payments and you know that life insurance is going to stay in place.

It's going to be permanent, it's going to pay out when you die because the investment interest is going to cover the insurance. That's whole life. Variable policies have a similar concept, but there's a variable growth within the policy. And then universal is usually, these days we see it mostly coupled with index.

So they take an index policy where like the idea is, okay, if the s and p 500 goes up by a certain amount, [00:21:00] we'll give you a portion of that. And the indexed universal life policies. Will go up if markets go up, but not down. If markets go down and then they limit the upside so you don't get all of the upside and no downside, that would be too wonderful.

They give you a portion of the upside and then no downside, and those have a much higher possibility of growing compared to the whole life policy, which guarantees you a fixed interest rate. There's a little bit of a risk tolerance difference between those two. So there's also guaranteed universal life, not indexed universal life.

So the idea behind guaranteed universal life is you could take a policy that has a hundred thousand dollars cash value in it. And you could move that a hundred thousand dollars into a guaranteed universal life, and maybe the a hundred thousand dollars cash value policy previously had a death benefit of $200,000.

There's a good chance we could drop that a hundred thousand dollars into a guaranteed [00:22:00] universal life, shut off the premium payments so they don't have to make any more, and maybe double or triple or even more the death benefit so that the survivor ends up with a whole lot more. So what we see is people end up with these policies because they were pitched to the policy, which we'll talk about.

A little bit later they were pitched this policy and the investment and I'm got my hands up in there 'cause I talk with my hands. And this is not in video, but Laura's here and she's going to see it. Okay, so in the one hand, if you can imagine you're holding in one hand the idea of a really high death benefit.

And on the other hand, you're holding the idea of the investment inside the life insurance having higher growth. If you want higher growth potential on the investment of the life insurance, the death benefit is going to be smaller. If you want a really high death benefit, the growth on the cash value is going to be smaller and not just smaller.

It might actually dwindle to zero. The problem we run into, it's like being in the [00:23:00] middle of the country and deciding you want to visit both New York and California and you never end up in either of the states. You have to decide are, am I headed east or am I headed west? What do I really want out of this life insurance?

And the idea is if you really want a death benefit, you should probably be willing to sacrifice the investment component to maximize the death benefit. If you want a modest death benefit, but you want that cash value for whatever reason, you should look for high growth within it and be okay with a low death benefit.

What we find is that most people buy the life insurance for the death benefit, not for the investment component. And I think that's where our strong opinion comes in. If we're going to buy life insurance, let's buy life insurance for the death benefit. And we're not opposed to permanent life insurance.

We just don't like permanent life insurance with high cost, low death benefit and trying to make it be a really efficient investment vehicle when it's usually not as efficient as just [00:24:00] normal investments outside of life insurance. So in other words, we run into these policies, people bring us a statement and they have.

Modest growth potential with a really low death benefit. And we can exchange that for either let's get high growth potential with zero death benefit 'cause you just pull it out. Or let's take and get a really high death benefit with very little growth potential on it. And basically what I'm saying is don't hang out in Minnesota if you're trying to get to New York or California.

Got nothing against Minnesota. It was the first state that came to mind. Somewhere in the middle, and it's not even in the middle. Should have picked something else. Moving on, that is a quick summary. There's so much going on, but let me give you a quick reason for, I know one story of a client where I think permanent life insurance is the only way to go for him, and I'm telling you this story because.

Generally here at Capital, we're like, you don't need permanent life insurance. You don't need permanent life insurance. But I'm giving you the exception so that you know [00:25:00] that we're not all extreme. One side only. This guy, it's a second marriage. He has two and a half million dollars worth of assets. His kids are concerned that his new wife is going to get all of those assets.

His new wife is concerned that they have this life together. They've been together for quite a few years now. I say new wife, but it's been about seven years. She is living this life that they have together on about $150,000 of income, and she doesn't have much in assets, so she will be left in a world of hurt if she doesn't have anything.

And the kids are worried that if it goes to her, that it won't ever make it back to them and it could go to her kids. So. There are trust structures that they could use, but sometimes that puts the kids and surviving spouse her at odds with each other. Like they want her to either pass away early, so more assets go to them, or, you know, there's weird, weird nuances and weird relationship [00:26:00] situations that pop up with that.

So. He bought permanent life insurance and funded it with enough that it's paid up. So now he can rest assured that when he dies, a million dollars goes to her immediately and they're old enough that they don't need to multiply by 20 to figure out their number. They don't have that many years left in life.

Multiplying by 10 to 15 is going to be fine and she'll be able to live on 50 to $75,000 a year, so that'll be good. And she already has social security and she'll have survivor benefits for social security, so she's in good shape. Million dollar fixed amount for her when he passes away, and then the two and a half million dollars immediately gets split to all the kids.

So the kids and his current wife don't have to financially coordinate after he passes away. I. Because usually what happens is in that situation, he is the glue keeping all of those relationships together. And when he's gone, they just don't have the same incentive to want to talk to each other. So that is a [00:27:00] wonderful use of permanent life insurance that we don't know how long he's going to live.

It would be a shame to have term, have the term run out, and then he pass away after that, and then maybe the term ends. And he's so old that he's not eligible to get more life insurance and anyway, so there's. Reason for it. And that's a quick example of one situation. We see it often, but life insurance can be used to prepare for estate taxes.

Just knowing that you're going to be over the 23, 20 $4 million in assets and you know you're going to have a tax bill of two to $10 million, you could buy a policy to just know I'm going to cover that at that time, or solving for multiple marriages and. Making sure the kids get what they want and need and, and also your current spouse.

There are a couple different ideas like that. Okay. Moving on. Why are you being pitched this so much? Well, you're being pitched it because the premium that you pay pays a higher commission to the agent. Some people are insurance agents only. Some people are. Investment advisors and insurance agents. [00:28:00] Some people are broker dealers and insurance agents.

Some people are a broker, an advisor, and an agent. Those, those are three different financial professionals, and it's good to know who you're talking to, but if you are an agent only, you don't do any other type of advice. You don't charge for advice, you don't charge for trades, you don't make commissions.

On broker activity or anything like that. If all you are as an agent, I don't think you can survive doing term life policies. They just don't pay enough. The commission is solo that you probably won't have enough time in the day to make an annual living on term life policies only. So if you are an agent only, you're going to do permanent life insurance and that is just part of the deal.

So I'm not saying that that's right. I'm just. Pragmatically explaining what's going on here for everybody. So if you are the consumer of that, I actually really like working with somebody who is also an investment advisor or a wealth advisor of some type to be able [00:29:00] to basically say, yeah, we know we're not going to make any money.

We're actually going to lose money on the time we spend and the staff we hire to fill out the paperwork and make sure your term life insurance goes through. We're going to make less than what it costs us to hire the people to do it, but we don't care because it's part of a financial plan and we charge for advice over here and that's fine.

That's the bottom line is you're being pitched it because the commission is higher on permanent life insurance. Is there anything else, Laura, that we to add to all this? Maybe quickly we talk about children, people have kids, what type of coverage we can get. A lot of times through your work, you can get a policy that covers your kids and obviously you never even want to think about this scenario, but might be nice to have something that covers funeral costs.

Yeah. A lot of people do $10,000, 15, $20,000 per kid. And you did an episode with, was it Matt Russon? Oh yeah, the cost of dying On the cost of dying. Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of crazy. I think it's more expensive than people anticipate as well. So that's something to think about. That was a while ago. I wonder if inflation has hit those costs.

Probably. [00:30:00] I'm fortunate that I haven't had to be in charge of any funerals. My parents are both still alive. My wife's parents are both still alive and no siblings passed away. But he talked about the casket, but then there's also the box that preserves the casket. The vault. Yes, the vault. Thank you. Yeah.

And he went through the costs of all of those things, and that was fascinating. The thing for you to realize is that when someone passes away, the last thing you want to do in that exact week or two weeks is have to deal with a ton of financial paperwork. We hope to be able to take care of that for our clients, but even on top of that, we don't even want to make our clients have to deal with us.

Exactly. During that time. The idea would be it's good to have in the bank account enough money that you could cover a funeral and then yeah, sure. You could set up life insurance that you could reimburse yourself. Basically, you get the maybe $20,000 life policy on a child. My goodness. Like it makes me so sad to even think [00:31:00] of having to deal with this.

But let's try to get past that concept of, 'cause it happens to people. If you have $20,000 in the bank, you're able to just deal with the unfortunate situation, and then a few weeks later, file the claim, get the $20,000 back, deposit it in your bank account, and you're fine. One other thing, we touched on this with your own story.

You had a policy through your work, you had good coverage through your work, but then you ended up moving and you couldn't take that policy with the same premium cost 'cause you had to pay what your employer was paying. Sometimes it might make sense to get your. Own policy outside of work. So if you do move or switch employers and you become uninsurable before that move, that you can take that policy with you totally at the same cost.

The cost of that insurance would've been about a hundred to $150 a month instead of $70 a month. So I did not save in the long run, the 30 to $80 Yeah, difference. I didn't save that in the long run by going with the cheaper option through work. I should have got it individually. [00:32:00] I think the reason they pushed it up to, I think it was 1100, I can't remember exactly the number, but the reason they push it up to that number is because anybody who is that passionate about wanting to keep their life insurance is not healthy.

Yeah, yeah. There's a problem. Basically, they're trying to force the hand to say, all right, I'm either not going to pay it 'cause it's too expensive. Or I'm going to just stop and go get life insurance elsewhere. So the only people that would actually keep it are the ones that they're going to have to make big death claims on.

So I don't know, I was just kind of lumped in with a lot of people who probably are going to keep it for a few years that might have a terminal illness of some type or something like that. And for them it would make sense to pay those high premiums. Right. Just something else to think about. But I think that's it.

We've covered it. Kind of a morbid topic, not so fun, but good to have because if you wait for when you need it, it's too late. Yeah, and check the box. Just check the box. Yeah. It's an act of love for your family. Check the box, get this done, review it every five [00:33:00] to 10 years. We're giving you the out. Just check the box and you don't have to talk about it again for a long time.

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